taxes alone, the obama plan is a more, we think, equitable plan for the country as a whole. no doubt about that. and, you know, and we've said that. but what's amazing as we've talked about today is how mild that is compared to the way we used to deal with those issues. but that was certainly better in a system -- than a system that lets somebody of romney's wealth pay 14 president of his -- 14% of his income in federal taxes. that's just outrageous. >> host: now, on the other side, toward the end of this 2012 campaign, the republican side started saying, well, everybody should participate pointing out that 40, 50% of americans do not pay any income tax. >> guest: right. >> host: what's your view on that? >> guest: well, the problem is if the income keeps going down, i mean, you reach a point where ordinarily i would agree with that, i would say absolutely. everyone should be participating in the society. as the income keeps going down for those people, you know, at the bottom, i don't know how you can get more money out of them. >> guest: and also, that thing ignored the fa